Family Chat: Being an Afro-Latina with My Cousin, Shailyn Tirado

In this episode, I talk to my cousin, Shailyn Tirado, about Blackness as an Afro-Latina, and more specifically, in our Dominican culture.

Summary

In the season's penultimate family chat, Taylor laughs about family rankings with cousin Shailyn. Shailyn, an Afro Latina research director from Minneapolis, discusses her career while reflecting on their grandpa's 95th birthday. They explore Afro Latina identity, societal and educational challenges, particularly for dark-skinned women, and the importance of the 'black, AND Hispanic' label. The dialogue extends to distinctions between race and ethnicity, the role of platforms in anti-racism education, and the influence of colonialism, and African ancestry on self-identification.

Transcription

Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman

Hello and welcome back. This is another family chat on, “On the Outside” All right, we are back. We have another family chat this week and friends. This is one of two final family chats. I don't have one for our final week, that final week of the season, which is going to be week 12. I just have an interview and I have my solo little full season recap episode.

So this is it. We got Shailyn for two weeks and two more iconic family chats coming at you. Shailyn is honestly just so much fun and I am so excited that she is on the pod for this conversation. So let's get into it.

Ok. So we are here. We have another family chat this week and we are with my cousin. Can I say my favorite cousin? I feel like our other cousins are going to listen to this and they would not love that but a top myspace, top eight favorite cousin. Shailyn is here. So tell the people who you are.

Shailyn Tirado

Hi friends. My name is Shayne. I am a 35 year old Afro Latina currently living in Minneapolis, Minnesota. where I work as a research director for a, you do. Yes, I do for a legal and financial services organization where I've spent the greater part of probably close to a decade now. I have got two degrees under my belt, an A B A and an ma both in legal studies and long governance respectively. And that's primarily because I had law school aspirations many, many moons ago.

Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman, Shailyn Tirado

But that is no longer the case and, and I thought that Charlene was a lawyer or worked in a law office for so long.

Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman

She was like, I'm a research director because every single time I see her, I'm like, are you a lawyer? And she's like, still, no, that is not what I do, but I do know your job. I remember it. It's in my heart, it's in my mind. I know this for sure. Well, I'm so happy that you're here. I'm so glad that you're on the pod and you're my final family chat guest.

You're, I'm honored. You're the combination of the family. I had my mom or I had Richard the first week. Then I had my mom for like three weeks and I had Richard again. Then I had Salah and I'm finishing it off strong with you.

Shailyn Tirado

I love that and I've learned so much from the ones you've had already.

Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman, Shailyn Tirado

So hopefully, I love that you've listened to them.

Shailyn Tirado

Yes, of course. I'm your big fan. Hello.

Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman

And it's so funny when we were at grandpa's birthday, it was his 94th or 95th, 95th, milestone, 9, 95th, our grandpa's birthday. all the family was coming up to me and my mom and they were like, oh, we listened to your podcast episode, Uncle Hector listened to it. I was like dying. I was like, this is amazing. That's not you listening to my podcast so cute.

Shailyn Tirado

I love that. I love family story. I feel like that's, I feel like that's pivotal. Plus, I like seeing like our family's little names on your Instagram likes support each other.

Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman

I think this is a perfect segue because in today's episode, we're getting into a little bit of like our family experience being, I also identify as an Afro Latina, which I said before. I think I feel most comfortable with that. Like, if I have to label myself, that is how I feel most comfortable. I do feel I was just talking to about this, not on the podcast but like in normal life about like, because t is Dominican and Argentinian, but she's like some people say she's white passing

though she doesn't necessarily see that of herself. And then she also feels like more than anything. I'm a Latina, but I can't just like, that's not a race. So I feel very, just like conflicted and kind of similarly like, I, I feel like so much of my childhood I was like, confused about what my race was. And then in my adulthood, I very much was like, OK, I'm accepting my blackness.

I'm taking that in. I'm learning about it. I'm embracing it. But then I was also simultaneously told like, no, but you're not really because you're Puerto Rican and Dominican. So Afro Latina feels like the most comfortable to me. But like, how do you feel about that?

Shailyn Tirado

I will say it's been a journey for me. So it hasn't al I I haven't always felt the same way throughout my life. I've had a lot of very challenging experiences with self identification. I think it ranged from being very young and realizing that I am s or that I was and am significantly darker than most of our family. So and when I say when I speak about our family, obviously your dad's side, so your dad and my mom are siblings. So it would be, you know, that side of the family where and so

whenever we would collectively get together, I would always I always paid attention to that other aspect of myself, which was that I was always darker in the cousin group picture. And even though I will say that's something that I kind of took on on my own because I wasn't made to feel like other like I don't think from our uncles or anyone in our family, I don't think it was ever something like, oh, she's darker than everyone else.

Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman, Shailyn Tirado

It was, people were making comments about it, but it was just something that was just so obvious.

Shailyn Tirado

And I want to say that maybe that's a plight that a lot of dark skinned women perhaps experience through life in educational settings. And, you know, just honestly, the list can go on and on. But I do feel that I would agree with you in that when the term Afro Latina came to be more in the mainstream, I was very much like, exactly. That's me. That is verbatim, what I identify with and where I feel most comfortable speaking about my identity.

Because even to this day, even with certain self identification portals that I have at work, for example, it'll ask me my race. But then in parentheses, it will always say not Hispanic and I'm like, no and Hispanic it's both. So why are you making me choose? And yeah, there's been a lot of hr conversations entered around getting those things amended, you know.

Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman

But yeah, the specific like black, not Hispanic. I'm always like, oh my gosh, relax. I'm like, OK. All right.

Shailyn Tirado

Are you yell at me? Exactly. And every, every listing or every identifier will always say in parenthesis, not Hispanic, like it'll say Pacific Island or not Hispanic, not Hispanic. And I'm like, why, why are we separating? That's an ethnicity, not a race.

Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman

Yeah, I wrote a newsletter so long ago, like three years ago about why that is. And I actually don't remember. So anyone listening to this, if you want to know why that is, you can find my newsletter on my website. I actually can't remember in the moment there's like a reason based on the census and based on like, it was specifically talking about like Mexican, like like Mexican populations wanting the distinction on the US census.

But I actually can't remember like the full history of it. But yeah, very weird. And I agree that like Afro Latina feels the most. Yeah, like when I found that term, I was like, OK, that's me, right?

Shailyn Tirado

100% 100%.

Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman

So within our family, I feel like we have people that look so many different ways. Like when we were at grandpa's birthday, I think that was the first time in a while that like everyone has been there. Like there was a couple of cousins that weren't there but like a lot of the family was there and like, we all have so many different hair textures which you know, hair is like a big thing for me and so many different skin tones.

I think my like I was definitely told by my dad primarily that I was not black, like explicitly when I was a kid, like we are not black, but people will see us as black and racism is super real and you're gonna experience it. But it's because people don't really know that you're not black, you're Dominican, which is different. And so when people would say that I was black like kids in school and stuff, I was like, you're actually wrong.

And that made me super confused and like going on, I mean, shout out to my dad for having like an emotional mental spiritual like re evaluation around like 2021 and being like, oh my gosh, I'm black like love that for him, love that journey. But I was very much which is like super, a lot of Dominicans say that they're not black.

Shailyn Tirado

Yeah, that's a whole other ball game if we're honest because I, well, I, I think context is important too because the times that we are in now are absolutely not the times that we were growing up in. So even having the kind of conversations around I'm not black, I'm Dominican like that's a meme in and of itself nowadays because that's historically how a lot of people would respond.

And it was mainly because I, and, and this is kind of how I feel about it and I've read some literature around it as well, which is that for a lot of Latin countries, the nationality is the pride component. Whereas for a lot of you know, us based folks that are raised here, it's the race that is the leading identifier. And so I think, I mean, I've had people in my dad's side of the family on our side of the family, both say like, oh I'm not black, I'm Dominican.

And throughout life similar to Uncle Ray to your dad, it's been people kind of having a coming to Jesus moment of being like, hold on. I am multiple things can be true, right? I am Dominican and I am Black because let's be honest, there are Dominicans that are not black, but they have African roots and I think the context and how we describe certain things matters. I'm a big proponent of words matter. And so even if you someone who was born in the Dominican Republic but is white passing, they exist, you know, there are folks who have green eyes and very, very fair complexions and burn in the sun, but are born and raised in the Dominican Republic and they are a culmination of, you know, colonialism of imperialism of, you know, and, and, but the roots still trace back to Africa. So there is a component of having African ancestry but maybe not necessarily being a black person. So I think it's such a layered conversation.

Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman

Yeah, 100%. I felt so because one thing that made me super uncomfortable at one point was when I started speaking up more and more and really using my platform to talk about anti racism education. This is like 2020 this is like very brand new to me and I had this girl in my D MS be like I don't even know if I've ever told you this, but she was like, you're not black. I would never want my little sisters to look at someone like you and see that as someone aspirational because you're Puerto Rican, you're not a black woman.

Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman, Shailyn Tirado

And for you to be like, you know, talking about this, your face looks so mad right now you're ready to fight someone because I, I'm sure I, I feel very for me.

Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman

She was like, for you to be like talking about this like, sure you could be. And what's most insane is this girl spoke on a panel for my company that I have with Kira activism. She spoke on a panel with us. That was how I met her. Like she spoke on a panel for my company. That's how she knew me, my anti racism company, which that is what it is called. She's, that's how she met me.

And she was like, but you can't refer to yourself as a black woman because you're not. And I was like, for so long people said I was black and I said I wasn't now I'm saying I'm black and people are saying I'm not. And I was like, what am I like? What is going on? Like I was freaking out. I was like, this is so scary and I had such a, you know, not that I necessarily needed to like, be validated in my identity.

But I had such a validating experience in I read this entire book for a class about the Haitian revolution. And it talks a lot about the way in which, you know, slaves were brought over and where they were brought. And like more slaves were brought to the island of Dominica to than the US colonies at the time. Like more slaves were brought to the Caribbean than were brought to mainland North America.

And I was like, this is so interesting because I feel like there's such a narrative about like what is what constitutes blackness in the United States, like who is black and who gets to be black when you may not look a certain way. And what this girl said in my D MS, which was the funniest part is she was like, I knew right away when I saw your hair that you weren't black. I was like, you mean this weave that's on my head because if there's one thing that is the most black about me, it is my hair.

Like you're literally so confused. Like this is a weave girl that was what I was still wearing my long weave. So I was like, you're so confused. Like what? So yeah, that was like really, oh my gosh, thinking about it, my palms are sweating. It was such a stressful moment.

Shailyn Tirado

I mean, it's, it's, it's stressful to hear it just because obviously, you know how overprotective I am of you. And so after we wrap this up, I want you to point it out to me. But, I, I think, I don't know, for some reason there's just this, this incessant gatekeeping of like the quote unquote oppression, olympics of like who gets to one or the other.

And it's like we all started off at the same location, we were dropped off in different places. That's why the largest population of black people outside of Africa is Brazil. That's Latin America.

Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman, Shailyn Tirado

I mean, it's not even the, you said I read the literature girls.

Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman

I know it.

Shailyn Tirado

Yeah. And it's unfortunate that there are folks who feel the need to police it in that way because, you know, no, no one knows what you've gone through. No one knows what your experience is. And, and I think for you, at least it's highlighted even more because you grew up in a predominantly white town space school where you were made to feel like another.

And so you were faced with, you know, addressing these questions about self identification much younger than a lot of us. I grew up in a very diverse town, like there were people that looked like me or not or like just people from every corner of the world where I went to school in the town that I grew up in and a lot of Spanish speaking you know, black people and, and vice versa and, and it's just, yeah, you, you had to kind of address it head on at an age where maybe you weren't, you didn't have all the tools for someone, for someone as an adult who met you through your platform to then spin that around and say and, and tell you what you are not is kind of comical to me.

Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman

And when she said, I would never want my little sisters to look up to you. I was like, what I was like, this is so unnecessary. I was like, this is so unnecessary. What really like you're literally being so mean to me for no reason.

Shailyn Tirado

And it was like you and I look up to you.

Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman

I love you. I look up to you, you little freaking beauty. And it was like during Black History Month, I did a Black History Month class and raised money for an organization and that's what I posted and she was like, I would never want my sister to look up to you with this.

Shailyn Tirado

I was like, I'm upset maybe talk about because I think it centers our Afro Latini that and at the same time, just this this habit, I think that it's, I again, I can't speak for other cultures, but I know it's absolutely in Latin culture and, and definitely in Dominican culture where we will give sort of endearing nicknames to people based off of physical descriptors, right?

Where you like, everybody knows a flaca or gordo or like for me growing up, my parents to this day and I have it tattooed on my foot. My parents have always called me Morena and it's something that only as I grew up was I like, why is my nickname about my race and, or based off of the nature of what I look like? Because my sister who is probably closer to your complexion than to mine doesn't have a nickname like that.

And, but my brother does, at least my dad does. He'll call my brother Moreno. and, and growing up, I always thought it was just very sweet. Like I was like, I just love that whenever I hear that phrase or that name. I know it's my parents calling me, it's my mom or my dad calling me and it's always come from a place of love, like even when, you know, when I call them to this day and, and then they answer the phone, that's kind of what they'll say.

Hi Morena, you know, and that's just always what it is when they text me, my mom will say Morena and I hear it in her voice, you know, and but it was something that only after I went to get it tattooed on my foot that the tattoo artist was like, what does this mean? And I was like black, like it means, you know, well, technically means either dark skinned or dark hair, but I knew what it meant for me towards me.

And I spent a lot of time thinking about that, especially after as he was tattooing it. I was like, why am I getting this? And then I remember being like, being like, is this, is this what I want to be like? Do I want to continue to be identified this way? Do I want it on my body? Have I thought for you? I probably got it. I was maybe I was maybe 23 when I got that tattoo.

So I was an adult legally but maybe not mentally. But I, but it was just something that I never really questioned until someone outside of the safe space, kind of asked me what it meant. And in that moment, me being confronted with, why has my family been calling me a, you know, an endearing term to them? But it's something that just continued to highlight this otherness that I already felt because at that age, even at 23 I was not comfortable with my skin tone with what I looked like.

I struggled a lot with that growing up, I never wanted to be in the sun. Whenever my friends made plans to go to the beach. I was always like, like, is, is anyone bringing an umbrella? Like I'm not trying to get darker? And I, and I don't know where that came from, but I remember speaking to my friends and I have many friends to this day that even if I post a picture at the beach, they'll comment and they'll say like, wow, I remember when you hated the beach, like, I remember when you hated to

be in the Yeah, I think you're such a beach girl one time beach girly. But there was such a significant, I would say a majority of my life. I spent it hiding away from the sun, not wanting to get darker, not wanting to contribute to this nickname that my family gave me. Like I just kind of wanted to separate myself from it. And I would say that probably having similar complexion like one of my best friends, Francis, like I always say to her that when I met her freshman year of high school, she was a major player in my self acceptance because I saw someone else. She was born and raised born in born in Puerto Rico, raised in the Bronx and very, you know, Afro Latina, very similar upbringing to myself. And through her, through our friendship, I've self discovered what I love about what we look like and me seeing it and being like, I love my friend and I think she's stunning and I think people that look like her are stunning.

So that was I was able to reconnect with me through my friendship with her and I love that for you like us. Yeah. And that's why even growing up you know, everybody I want to be Beyonce. I wanted to be Kelly Rowland. Like I always wanted to be Kelly Rowland to this day. You'll see me post on Instagram like I do, I do. Yeah, because I'm like, that's who I saw. I was like, that's who I look. Like. I was a very skinny girl with muscular arms who was like, always, like my friends were always like, celebrated in terms of beauty and I was, I was just like the friend and I was like, hm, I kind of just, I don't wanna, and I can't even say that I was comfortable or uncomfortable. I, I'm inclined to say I was uncomfortable because it's a staple in my memory. but it's just always, yeah, I was always like, no, I'm not the main girl. I'm, I'm the bestie, I'm the Kelly. I'm, you know, and, and yeah, so I know that was kind of a cornucopia of, of life.

Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman

I learned so much. I feel like I learned so much about you honestly. And I'm like, thinking back remembering, I mean, obviously you're, how much older than me? Are you saying you're not the same age as my sister because you're younger than my young sister.

Shailyn Tirado

You're younger than your sister?

Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman

Yeah, I'm ok. So you're like four years older than me because I'm about to be 31. because I just remember you being like the coolest ever. Me being like, when you said that you were like, skinny with like muscular arms. I, I distinctly remember being like, wow, Shailyn is so ripped when I was like, I don't even know in middle school when I started, like, thinking about like bodies because I think before that and you really don't.

And I was like, she so ripped like, love that for her. Like, when we'd go on vacations and I thought you were so cool. I thought you were like 10 out of 10. And then when we got older and you were like my friend, I was like, oh my gosh, yay, we're friends now and here we are.

Shailyn Tirado

That's probably like one of the best, my like, favorite parts of our cousin journey because yeah, I was like, me and your sister were like yin and yang because obviously our age, you know, we apart. Yeah, we were close to my age and you were always like, oh Taylor, she's going to tell Anna Taylor or something. Tattle Taylor literally. And then, and then the older you got, the more I continue to fall in love with you. And I'm like, I'm obsessed with her. She's my favorite.

Taylor Rae Almonte-Roman

Thanks so much for listening and thanks so much for being here. I will see you next week. See you out there.